Yesterday, blogger Jeremy Hooper posted a part of a conversation on ex-gay Randy Thomas's blog regarding GLAAD's Commentator Accountability Project.
Focus on the Family's Glenn T. Stanton took part in the conversation to whine about GLAAD.
Now in the course of the part that Jeremy posted, Stanton - who has been portrayed as an expert by the media on the subject of lgbtq equality - admitted that he found homosexuality to be "a particularly evil lie of Satan."
In the part I am presenting, this conversation about that label continues but Stanton is trying to play it both ways. He - and Thomas - are claiming that it's perfectly rational to label homosexuality as Satanic and also those who complain about this are in the wrong.
Take a look below at religious right hypocrisy presented live and in color The way I have noted the conversation isn't as sophisticated as Jeremy, but I assure you that no comments have been altered.:
Oh and just in case you didn't notice, pay attention to the fact that Stanton - and Thomas - did not answer my earlier reply regarding Stanton's shoddy work.
It's just as many of us have been saying. Some anti-gay pundits seem to think that they have the First Amendment right dehumanize us and disrespect our lives. However apparently to them, we shouldn't have the First Amendment right to respond.
Focus on the Family's Glenn T. Stanton took part in the conversation to whine about GLAAD.
Now in the course of the part that Jeremy posted, Stanton - who has been portrayed as an expert by the media on the subject of lgbtq equality - admitted that he found homosexuality to be "a particularly evil lie of Satan."
In the part I am presenting, this conversation about that label continues but Stanton is trying to play it both ways. He - and Thomas - are claiming that it's perfectly rational to label homosexuality as Satanic and also those who complain about this are in the wrong.
Take a look below at religious right hypocrisy presented live and in color The way I have noted the conversation isn't as sophisticated as Jeremy, but I assure you that no comments have been altered.:
Glenn T. Stanton · Sr. Elite Cone Dipper at Dairy Queen at the Mall
Nice commentary Randy. It is really remarkable.
Jeremy Hooper · Editor/Publisher at Good As You
Glenn, you have one of the most notorious quotes of anyone! You have, quite literally and proudly, called homosexuality "a particularly evil lie of Satan." You said this, on your own accord -- GLAAD simply noted it.
And I know that people within your own movement are taken aback by this, the claim that you put on the record and that still exists on the Focus on the Family site. I'm sure that the next time you engage on mainstream media, others would like to hear it as well. And *that* is the sole point of this project: To inform. No one is trying to stop you, Jim, Randy, or anyone from obtaining a booking. That could've bee the project's ask: It's decidedly not!
Glenn T. Stanton · Sr. Elite Cone Dipper at Dairy Queen at the Mall
Jeremy. Yes, I as a Christian believe homosexuality is a particularly evil lie of Satan. There are many. Abortion is one. Pornography is another. Sex trafficing is another. Adultery and divorce are some as well. Because they run contrary to what God created us for. If you have a problem with that, you have a problem with historic Christianity. And yes, I did it literally, but certainly not proudly. Please don't pretend to know my inner thoughts.
Glenn T. Stanton · Sr. Elite Cone Dipper at Dairy Queen at the Mall
And our opponents throw the "bigot" and "homophobe" accusations around so loosely and casually, as to apply to anyone who disapproves of homosexuality. And they do so TO the person, not their ideas. You will never find me saying anything bad about particular individuals because they identify as homosexual. But I will speak about homosexuality. Our opponents are the ones who call people names and they do it liberally.
Glenn T. Stanton · Sr. Elite Cone Dipper at Dairy Queen at the Mall
Honestly Scott, I could care less about them publishing quotes. I do stand by them without the slightest hesitation. And I don't believe they are out of the mainstream in the least. But I object to them using them to tell other people my thoughts are invalid and not to talk to me, which is exactly what GLAAD telling news outlets. They did the same thing when I was a guest on Dr. Phil. "Don't talk to him. He's not an authority." But they don't address what I said and why it's "wrong" only that i said it. Come on.
Scott Hutcheson · Top Commenter · Katella High
Glenn T. Stanton Where in the world did they say that? They're making your quotes available. You *may* get challenged on them in future appearances. Focus representatives *may* get challenged in general for misinterpreting research to suit their own purposes (resulting in the researchers asking you to stop).
All of this is fair game in the public square.
Randy Thomas · Subscribe · Orlando, Florida
Scott, you mischaracterize Glenn's response as "whining" earlier and now you come across very condescending in your statement "all of this is fair game in the public square." As if we didn't know this already? It is also fair to call out GLAAD's selective outrage and borderline bigotry in stigmatizing a group of 36 people, who run the entire length of the middle right to far right spectrum into one big ol' animus filled worthy of disdain group. I know Jeremy is pulling a CYA disclaimer by saying they are not trying to stop the media from booking these commentators but that is incredibly disingenuous. GLAAD can not honestly say that they would not be thoroughly pleased, and consider it a triumph, to effectively deter any media from ever speaking with these folks again as a result of this project.
Scott Hutcheson · Top Commenter · Katella High
Randy Thomas Verbatim quotes are verbatim quotes. GLAAD is posting them and yes, I'm pretty sure that if MSNBC thinks twice about having somebody on there who said them, then it would elevate discourse. It's pretty well documented that many of the people on that list speak a certain way in front of one audience (i.e. "hundreds of thousands of ex-gays") and say something completely different when a cable news camera is on them. If they don't want their church time quotes put in the public square, then they probably should think twice before they say them because people are starting to pay attention.
I've been following people like Peter LaBarbera, Ken Connor, Gary Bauer, etc. for many years and have a very good memory. The internet has a much better memory than I do.
Alvin McEwen · Top Commenter · Winthrop University
Glenn T. Stanton Well Glenn, if you admit that you say that homosexuality is an evil lie of Satan then you have given suitable ammunition to those who characterize you as a bigot. That's a nasty thing to say. Do you feel the same way about folks who practice different religions?
Alvin McEwen · Top Commenter · Winthrop University
Glenn T. Stanton One more thing, Glenn. You have presented yourself as an expert even though you have written pieces - Why Homosexuality Falls Short of the Ideal - with numerous errors (i.e. usage of the inaccurate term "gay bowel syndrome" and second hand citations of the discredited Paul Cameron). In addition, you were corrected for an error you made in 2008 by the American Anthropological Association. If GLAAD was calling Dr. Phil's attention to these errors you made, then the organization was totally in the right. I have a serious problem with weasel phrases such as "silencing Christians" or "silencing dissenting points of view." And the media should be presented with information which would lead them to question the motivations of someone presenting themselves as an expert on an issue not because they have done the work and have the degrees and expertise but because they have formed an opinion and have taken it upon themselves to cherry-pick legitimate work to prove that opinion. Don't get me wrong. That person should still be allowed to present his/her opinion on said interview or show but the media figure should ask questions about the person's motivations, statements, and expertise.
Jeremy Hooper · Editor/Publisher at Good As You
Let's all be clear about something. In Glenn's first response to me, he tries to act like he was simply lumping homosexuality into a mix of other things that he sees as "lies." But that is not what he said in the quote! To wit:
"All sexual sin is wrong because it fails to mirror the Trinitarian image, but homosexuality does more than fail. It's a particularly evil lie of Satan because he knows that it overthrows the very image of the Trinitarian God in creation, revealed in the union of male and female.
This is why this issue has become such a flashpoint. It will become even more contentious because nothing else challenges this image of the Triune God so profoundly and thoroughly as homosexuality. It's not what we were made for."
-Glenn Stanton, director for Family Formation Studies at Focus on the Family
Jeremy Hooper · Editor/Publisher at Good As You
It's also important to note that when I pointed out his comment once before, Glenn got really snarky with me on his own blog. Then, after I objectively (if proverbially) handed him a part of his lower body on a silver platter, he, in typical far-right fashion, deleted all traces of what he (and I) said. http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2011/07/ glenn-stanton-responds-to-m y-post-gives-me-another-op p-to-highlight-his-extreme -view.html
Randy Thomas · Subscribe · Orlando, Florida
Civility is a personally initiated courtesy ... not a reward extended to others who behave the way we want them to. The person who extends civility regardless of others behavior is operating in life-affirming relationship/communication. The person who only extends civility when another person earns it walks in life-draining self-righteousness.
Randy Thomas · Subscribe · Orlando, Florida
Scott Hutcheson, Glenn was sharing his opinion on "homosexuality" as a spiritual issue, not you and your friends personally. As far as my picture with Karl ... really? I met him long enough to shake his hand, grin and take a picture. If that bothers you ... well... as civilly as I can say this ... tough. I will stop there and ask you to re-read my comment about civility. Civility, like tolerance and unconditional love are best expressed when extended toward those you obviously don't agree with or don't agree with you. If you can only show civility to those you accept ... there is merit in that but not the depth that a truly civil approach to dialog can bring.
Glenn T. Stanton · Sr. Elite Cone Dipper at Dairy Queen at the Mall
Scott, Randy makes a very important point, which seems to get confuse very often in this debate. To say homosexuality is a particularly lie of Satan is not to say homosexuals themselves are an evil of Satan unless you define solely with your sexuality, just as saying abortion is a particularly evil lie of Satan, which I believe it is, is not to say that women who have aboritons are necessarily evil on themselves. Vegans think I am very, very wrong and inhumane for eating meat. I don't take personal offense at that. That is their conviction, which they have a right to...and to express. And I have mine. And Scott, can you read Randy's mind, that he "proudly" had his picture taken with Karl Rove. And is Karl Rove so evil that it is a social transgression to have your picture taken with him. Randy is about the most gracious, throughful, kind "opponent" you could have. Give him a break.
Alvin McEwen · Top Commenter · Winthrop University
Glenn T. Stanton Both Glenn and Randy, I am sorry but you are hedging. When you say that homosexuality is a lie of Satan, you are in fact TALKING ABOUT GAY PEOPLE. And gays have justification to be offended by this just like Christians have justification to be offended if someone talked ugly about their religion. The problem as I see it is a lack of honesty, particularly on the part of Glenn. You can't have it both ways. You have every right to make all sorts of nasty and negative remarks about gays, homosexuality, whatever. But at the same time, you need to own those remarks and stop whining that you are unfairly being called a bigot or hater. Labeling a facet of someone's life as Satanic does nothing for civility. Rather, it in fact DOES make you sound like a bigot and a hater regardless of whether it's a religious belief or not. Furthermore, while you have every right to assume that homosexuality is simply about sexual behavior, you need to stop whining when those who know better than you about the subject - i.e. the gay community - lend their voices to correct your assumption. Do you really expect us to be quiet when you say such offensive things about us? Lastly on a personal level, I find it insulting that Glenn says those ugly things about gays and then whines about civility. You just threw civility out of the window. And Randy, please stop insulting people's intelligence by attempting to make sense out of Glenn's nonsense.
Oh and just in case you didn't notice, pay attention to the fact that Stanton - and Thomas - did not answer my earlier reply regarding Stanton's shoddy work.
It's just as many of us have been saying. Some anti-gay pundits seem to think that they have the First Amendment right dehumanize us and disrespect our lives. However apparently to them, we shouldn't have the First Amendment right to respond.
Thank you so much for being involved and speaking up as a voice of sanity. I could not read the entire thread - I think my head would explode. I did read your parts - you are spot-on and reasonable.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, if someone says that homosexuality is Satanic, they are a bigot. Same as if they said, for example, that chromosomally intersex people are satanic, or if they said women are satanic, or if they characterized races other than their own as satanic. All are bigoted, and bigots say bigoted things.
The easter bunny and Santa had their hand in it too I think. Take a pagan god of fun and turn him into a symbol of evil you can blame anything on him. Pan likely did love gays, he did love celebrating sexuality.
ReplyDeleteThe true mark of a bully is the having the ability to dish it out, and the inability to take it.
ReplyDeleteMany, if not all, of the people on the list of 36 (shall we call them the Infamous 36?) do seem to be awfully thin-skinned and seem to fit the above definition perfectly.
All you have to bring up is the well documented fact that to Catholics in particular, being left-handed was called satanic up until the mid 60's. If you wrote with your left hand and went to a Catholic school, you were punished and made to write with your right hand. I know. My sister went to a Catholic school through 8th grade. I remember watching her come home crying, with her left hand showing marks of being restrained. The nuns were using rubber bands to keep her hand up close to her forearm in order to force her to use her right hand only. It didn't work. Today, in her later 50's, she still writes with her left hand and she holds her hand nearly backwards in order to write. All in the name of God and Satan.
ReplyDelete"Because they run contrary to what God created us for." - Glenn
ReplyDeleteO RLY? to that logic, did God "create" us to not eat shellfish (Leviticus 11:10), Trim your hair and beard (Leviticus 19:27), wear gold or other "costly attires" (1 Timothy 2:9), have tattoos or piercings (Leviticus 19:28), wear clothing that has two different fabrics (Leviticus 19:19)? And so on.
Does it make them a bigot? Maybe, maybe not. Some people really, truly believe things like this solely because they think it's what their holy book tells them. (Although I suspect far more either uncritically accept what they're told by their religious leaders, and/or use their religious beliefs as an excuse to justify and validate their narrow-minded, ignorant and fear-based prejudices.)
ReplyDeleteBut it does make them religious kooks, and I suspect that they have many other kooky beliefs and are saying many other things that most decent, fair-minded and rational people would find kooky quite aside from what they're saying about homosexuality. How about looking into some of these other things, and linking them to those as well, to show just how kooky these people are in general?
Really, truly believing that some categories of people are inferior to yourself and/or deserve to be punished for the crime of existing while different is what makes a bigot, John.
ReplyDeleteMr. McEwen,
ReplyDeleteThank you for speaking the truth. The bigots with whom you were jousting glossed over their lies (by their definitions, proving that they do the work of their Satan) and could not answer the most basic of questions from you, Mr. Hooper and Mr. Hutcheson. Thank you for sharing the dialogue here. Well done.
We really have to teach you how to screencap.
ReplyDeleteYes is can make you a bigot. However, not always. If it is used to justify your feelings of superiority, then yes. However, there are many groups of Christians that label just about everything Satanic. Speaking in Tongues, some mental illnesses, women's dress -- these are just a few of them.
ReplyDeleteI know one thing though. It surely DOESN't make you Christian. I don't care what the supposed justification is for the hate and labeling, Jesus simply would not behave like those on the front lines of the anti-gay Christian crusade.
Oh hush, Matt ;p
ReplyDeleteAlvin, thank you for calling out these shysters. It is amazing how they believe they have a license to lie and defame us, but that it is really mean of us to protest their defamation. They are weasels, indeed, for wanting to lie and libel, yet simultaneously demand that we be "civil" to them, which apparently means we don't get to call them out for their lies. Thanks for posting this conversation.
ReplyDeleteWell said! People have to realize that name-calling and vilifying people DOES make you a bigot, no matter how you try to couch it otherwise.
ReplyDeleteWhat is it that Jim Hightower once said? "You can put earrings on a hog, but it just doesn't hide the ugliness!"