Tuesday, December 23, 2008

But Mr. Warren, you aren't telling the truth

In the transcript of Rick Warren's comments about the controversy (talked about in my last post), he said he never equated gay marriage with pedophilia or incest:

I have been accused of equating gay partnerships with incest and pedophilia. Now of course as members of Saddleback Church you know I believe no such thing, I never have. You've never once heard me in 30 years heard me talk that way about that.

Well then just what is this statement taken from an interview with Beliefnet.com:

Rick Warren: But the issue to me is, I’m not opposed to that as much as I’m opposed to the redefinition of a 5,000-year definition of marriage. I’m opposed to having a brother and sister be together and call that marriage. I’m opposed to an older guy marrying a child and calling that a marriage. I’m opposed to one guy having multiple wives and calling that marriage.

Steven Waldman: Do you think, though, that they are equivalent to having gays getting married?

Rick Warren: Oh I do . …

You can see the video of the interview here and judge for yourself.

In his defense, Warren does try to clarify what he meant in this interview:

. . . in that interview I named several other relationships, in fact I've done it several times, I've named other relationships such as living together, uh or a man with multiple wives or brother sister relationship or adults with children or common law partnerships or all kinds of other relationships. I don't think any of them should be called marriage. Now I was not saying that those relationships were the same thing because I happen to not believe that and I've never taught it. I was just pointing out that I believe the definition of marriage should only be included one definition, a man and a woman for life.

You can take it for what you want, but to me, Warren needs to man up and own his comments. The "explanations" he gives for equating same sex marriage to pedophilia and incest are weak at best.

And it is more proof that Warren's attack on lgbts for calling him out on his dishonesty is unfounded.

In the transcript, Warren also blames the media and bloggers for "creating this controversy."

I guess his lying has nothing to do with it, huh?

Someone needs to tell Warren that the more he talks, the worse he looks.

UPDATE - Apparently Steve Waldman, the Beliefnet writer who interviewed Warren, doesn't agree with the explanations either, but he does add a caveat in another attempt to clarify Warren's comments. I happen to not agree but still it is worth mentioning:

In his December 22 video Warren had an opportunity to do something quite straightforward and healing: clarify, take resonsibility and, ideally, apologize. He did clarify but did not, in my view, take responsibility. He could have simply said, "it came out in a way I didn't mean and I apologize for those who I hurt because of that." It wouldn't have required him to back off his position on gay marriage one iota. Instead, he blamed the media and misremembered or mischaracterized what he'd said.

On the other hand, what's most important is that he did make it clear that he doesn't believe gay relationships are the moral equivalent of incest etc. That idea should now be put to rest.

Hat tip to Teach The Facts for the transcript and to Box Turtle Bulletin for the part about Waldman.
Now hold up, Rick Warren! YOU started this @&%#!

Had to post this one.

Apparently Rick Warren has posted a video about the recent controversy.

According to Americablog:

Warren accuses gays of "hate speech," of launching "hateful attacks" against him, and he then says that gay and lesbian Americans have "Christ-ophobia," a clear effort to mock the term "homophobia." He goes on to explain that gays are "afraid of any Christian," suggesting that gay and lesbian Americans - gay and lesbian Obama voters - are not Christians. He then goes on to call gays criticizing him "evil." All this from a man who compared gay marriage to incest and pedophilia, and who explicitly bans "unrepentant gays" from his church membership.(He also adds that bloggers are "rude" and "need to get a life." I don't really care about that part, it's just more evidence that we're getting under Warren's skin, and that he's not quite ready for prime time.)

Lgbts are obviously getting to Warren and that's good.

And I am glad to see that NO ONE is allowing Warren to get away with playing the victim here.

As John Aravosis so eloquently stated, Warren was the one started this mess by comparing gay marriage to incest and pedophilia, and who explicitly bans "unrepentant gays" from his church membership.

And as Jeremy from Goodasyou.org has said:

We're not hiding. We're not life-deprived. We are daring to stand up against your attempts to deny us of our lives. We in the gay community, in particular, are putting our lives on hold to fight this needless battle that you are FORCING US TO FIGHT! Why? Because we DO love our lives and we refuse to hide them for anyone! HOW DARE YOU trivialize the pain you have caused?!?!?

This is truly a wig-snatching off, earring-removing moment for the lgbt community.

It's like that old ghetto saying: "don't start nothing and there won't be nothing."

I have tried to be moderate about this (mainly because I remember how unneccesarily angry I was about the Donnie McClurkin incident) and I still believe that despite this misstep, an Obama Administration is good for the lgbt community.

But this constant whining by Warren is getting me this close to "losing all of my religion."

Just who in the hell does Warren think he is?

I know I am preaching to the choir, but I really want to know this.

He tells lies about gays wanting to jail Christians, he disrespects us and our relationships, and then when he is called on it, we (the community that have been maligned) are the ones in the wrong because we are complaining about it?

We are the haters? My head is spinning from that lack of logic.

No one has threatened Warren. But there have been vigorous disagreements with his statements. I guess Warren is channeling the mindset of the rest of the religious right - to attack their lies amounts to hatred because they are right even when they are wrong.

I know about Warren's work to fight AIDS but to me, it is the equivalent of putting out a fire that you have started.

Doesn't he realize that the things he says goes a long way in fostering an inferiority mentality amongst lgbts that would lead them into dangerous behavior which in turn leads to catching AIDS?

When you infer that someone is a freak and help to make sure that they cannot prove you wrong, don't be surprised to have a freak on your hands.

If Warren really cared about the lgbt community and AIDS, he would do more to foster monogamous lgbt relationships rather than tell lies in order to kill them.

And then comes the alleged elimination of anti-gay language on his church's webpage.

Instead of trying to beat up on lgbts, Warren needs to come clean on this. Obviously there was a feeling that the language was inappropriate. If not, then why was it removed?

That in itself proves that Warren's whining is inaccurate. Mike Rogers said it best in his smackdown on Hardball - the lgbt community at large has not changed on our position regarding Warren. It is Warren who made the changes.

Warren should just get off of the cross and stop trying to be Joan of Arc because HE started this mess with us.

And we are finishing it.
Quick briefs from the world

Warren’s church removes anti-gay statements from website. (If you haven't done anything wrong then why do you feel the need to remove stuff from your webpage, Mr.

Mike Rogers owns Warren defender on Hardball (Of course it's never about "gotcha politics" but I am so sick of weak ass spokespeople on news shows allowing people like Tony Perkins or Mike Huckabee to walk all over them with an Atticus Finch stick. Rogers was clear, to the point, never raised his voice, but controlled the conversation)

Lesbian's brutal gang rape investigated in Calif. (God, I hope this is just an urban legend)

Rule Shields Health Workers Who Withhold Care Based on Beliefs (If Concerned Women for America supports this then it can't be good for the lgbt community)

Yes on 8 Campaign: Liars (You mean they lied about not wanting to overturn the gay marriages that already took place in California? No shit.)