AFA's Gary Glenn makes desperate attempt to justify his call to 'criminalize homosexal behavior'

Yesterday, I wrote a post about how the American Family Association of Michigan's Gary Glenn publicly said he thinks that "homosexual behavior" should be criminalized.

Naturally what I wrote totally disagreed with his premise. Glenn didn't exactly like what I wrote so he wrote me back.

What ensued is a back and forth, which I think demonstrates just how folks like Glenn will attempt to manipulate facts and figures for their own purposes.

A summary is the following: Glenn lists reasons why "homosexual behavior" should be outlawed, but his reasonings are either studies taken out of context or work which specifically places the blame on homophobia for  the health issues in gay men (of course Glenn omits the lesbian community). When this is pointed out to him, Glenn refuses to retreat but engages in what seems to be a version of  "Pickett's charge." And like the original Pickett's charge, his desperate push is destroyed. His comments are in rude and mine are in blue.

Glenn:

Hi Al,

Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm happy to directly address precisely what I mean when I said that homosexual behavior is proven to be a threat to public health and safety.

I was referring to the dramatically increased incidence of mental illness, substance abuse, eating disorders, STDs, life-threatening diseases such as AIDS, cancer, and hepatitis, and premature death by up to 20 years among individuals who engage in homosexual behavior.

My sources for the references above would be the Journal of the American Medical Association, Oxford University's International Journal of Epidemiology, the Centers for Disease Control, the Lesbian and Gay Medical Association, the (homosexual) Canadian Rainbow Health Coalition, the Canadiam Medical Association Journal, etc., etc. -- none of whose researchers, far as I know, are named Cameron.

I was also referring to "Life in the Bushes," the propensity of an apparently sizeable segment of individuals who engage in homosexual behavior to engage in multiple on-the-spot anonymous sexual encounters in city parks, highway rest stops, public rest rooms, "gay" bookstores, etc. -- a practice advertised and promoted any any number of "gay" websites.

For example, as the Royal Oak (Mi.) Daily Tribune reported March 23, 2000, regarding a police raid on one such location:

"(Hazel Park City Manager Joseph) Young also said the Oakland County Health Department had been called to check the business after suspected 'bodily fluids' had been found there. 'Essentially it revolves around conditions existing in the building that we feel make it unsafe,' said (Hazel Park Police Chief David) Niedermeier."

Or as the Detroit Free Press reported March 24, 2000:

"Investigators said gay sexual activity was common at seven of the adult bookstores raided Wednesday. The seven bookstores had so-called buddy booths, which let patrons masturbate while watching one another, said Ypsilanti Police Det. Sgt. Craig Annas. Some of the booths had portals that allowed sexual activities to take place between partners in different booths, Annas said. 'The result is that male semen gets all around these rooms,' endangering the public through possible exposure to infected bodily fluids, he said. ...But Jeff Montgomery, executive director of Detroit-based Triangle Foundation, a gay-and-lesbian-rights group, defended the bookstores and said the raids were politically motivated harassment of gays."

Or as openly lesbian Detroit News columnist Deb Price commented regarding such public health-threatening activity in her weekly homosexual advocacy column:

"The Los Angeles County Health Services found half of HIV-positive men were having sex in public places without telling their sex partners of their status and often not using condoms."

That's what I was referring to, Al, when I said homosexual behavior and the homosexual lifestyle are a "proven threat to public health and safety."

No weaseling or Camorenesque talking points required.

Me:

Actually Mr. Glenn, while you didn't refer to Cameron per se, you did use his distortive (sp) techniques. For example:

You mentioned the so-called short life span of gay men. Now if I am not incorrect, you got that citation from the Oxford University's International Journal of Epidemiology. And you are referring to a 1997 study done by Canadian researchers. What you omitted was the fact that in 2001, those same researchers went on record complaining about how their work was being distorted by people like yourself .

Now in your other examples, you mentioned incidents having to do with such things as substance abuse, eating disorders, STDs, and mental illness. HOWEVER, you make a inaccurate implication that these things are indicative of the lgbt orientation.



None of the journals you cited have EVER said that those behaviors are indicative of the lgbt orientation. Legitimate health organizations and researchers have actually blamed the effects of lgbts having to deal with being stigmatized in an unaccepting society for these negative behaviors.

For example, the American Cancer Society says the following regarding cancer:

"Some of the risk factors for the GLBT population include lack of insurance policies covering unmarried partners, which makes it harder to access quality health care. Also, fear or past experience of discrimination by health care providers may cause some men and women to ignore recommended screenings for such things as colon, breast, and prostate cancer. This may prevent cancers from being detected early, when they are much easier to treat. "

Regarding AIDS, the Centers for Disease Control have said the following :

"To avoid social isolation, discrimination, or verbal or physical abuse, many men who have sex with men (MSM), especially young and minority MSM, do not disclose their sexual orientation (1--3). Young MSM who do not disclose their sexual orientation (nondisclosers) are thought to be at particularly high risk for human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) infection because of low self-esteem, depression, or lack of peer support and prevention services that are available to MSM who are more open about their sexuality (disclosers)."

Regarding substance abuse, this is what was said :

"A study by Dr. Michael P. Marshal of the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center revealed that LGBT teens are 190 percent more likely to use drugs and alcohol than are heterosexual teens, and that the usage rate is even higher among certain subgroups. . . .

"Homophobia, discrimination and victimization are largely what are responsible for these substance use disparities in young gay people,"

The sad thing is that you actually pervert the mission of the journals you mention for your own nasty purposes. It's similar to a racist taking journals dealing with African-American health to claim that blacks are abnormal or inferior.

What we are talking about here is stigmatizing gays - which by the way, plays a huge deal in the other examples you mentioned regarding some gay men's dangerous sexual exploits. Gay men who don't accept themselves are most likely to engage in dangerous sexual behavior. If you don't believe me, please consult Ted Haggard.

Mr. Glenn, I enjoyed this talk because it is so rare that someone from your side of this so-called culture battle will take the time to put his ignorance and homophobia on display for us lgbts to break down.

If your attempt was to prove your point regarding why "homosexual behavior" should be criminalized, you failed miserably. But if you were making the case to outlaw homophobia rather than "homosexual behavior," I think you make an excellent case.

Glenn:

Al, it's unlikely I'll take the time to "dissect," as you say, each of the misleading points you raise in rebuttal.

With a busy day ahead, this one will suffice for now.

We're all no doubt aware (yawn) that the scientists who conducted the Oxford-reported study -- whose continued access to homosexual test subjects in Vancouver is dependent upon their remaining in the test subjects' good graces -- issued a poltical (not scientific) objection to the fact that someone dared quote their findings that college-age men who engage in homosexual behavior would die 8 to 20 years younger than the general population.

The Canadian Medical Association Journal and others continued to cite their scientific findings anyway, despite the researchers' political posturing, since the medical journals are interested in what medical researchers are good at (medical research), not what they're not good at (agenda-driven politics).

But that's only one source, and the others aren't named Cameron either.

For example, in its formal complaint accusing the Canadian healthcare system of being "homophobic," the homosexual Rainbow Health Coalition stated:

"(W)hat research exists consistently indicates that the life expectancy of GLB people is substantially lower than that of the general population. ...It has been estimated that gay/bisexual men have a life expectancy 20 years less than the average man in Canada. In their book Caring For Lesbian and Gay People—A Clinical Guide, authors Dr. Allan Peterkin and Dr. Cathy Risdon suggest that the life expectancy of gay/bisexual men in Canada is 55 years. Less research has been conducted on the life expectancy for lesbians in Canada but health indicators suggest that while it is not as low as that for gay men, it is still lower than the life expectancy of the general population."

Of course, the Rainbow Health Coalition mimics your self-deluding claim that it's those who disapprove of homosexual behavior, not those who engage in it, who are responsible for the medical results of such behavior.

Which puts them at odds with the Vancouver researchers, who were honest enough (when they were engaged in science rather than politics) to attribute the shorter lifespans to the elevated incidence of AIDS transmitted through homosexual activity.

As to the other pathologies associated with homosexual behavior, it will be difficult for you to explain how "homophobia" is responsible for elevated incidence of, say, anal cancer or HIV infection.

It's the repeated physical act and resulting trauma or transmission of infection that leads to the diseases, Al, notwithstanding the political pablum of your assertions and delusions that someone else is to blame.

Accepting responsibility for your own behavior, rather than blaming others, is a fairly universal standard of honesty and maturity.

We won't hold our breath waiting on that, but in the meantime, states should have the right to regulate activity which they judge to pose a threat to public health, safety, and morals. I have no expectation of convincing you of that point, since my position in this discussion is the one not based on delusion.

Me:

Gary,

in your defense of distorting the Canadian study, you reveal a certain degree of dishonesty.

You use the work of these researchers but when they point out how wrong you are, then you suddenly question their credibility. Why use their work in the first place if their credibility was in question?

And your citation of information from the Rainbow Health Coalition further proves this point. You are mischaracterizing the work of Rainbow Health Coalition to prove that "homosexuality is a dangerous lifestyle," but you disregard the group's premise that it is homophobia which is causing gay men to have health problems. If you don't agree with the premise of the work, then why cite the work in the first place?

Again, you have shown your basic homophobia and desire to mislead in the name of Christ. You claim that "homosexual behavior" (and in doing so, you totally ignore the lesbian population) should illegal because it is a health hazard. And then you claim to back up your premise by citing "pro-gay" research. However, you either attack the researchers for attempting to clarify their work or intentionally ignore the actual premise of their research (i.e. it is homophobia which leads to health problems in gay men).

Before you start pontificating on the idea that you stand for morality and truth, have a serious discussion with yourself about your definition of morality and truth. I sincerely doubt you know the meaning of either word.